Posts by Jonathan Drake

57

The Bible Gods Word or Mans

by azor in

i remember studying this book years ago and how it impacted my belief system.

i no longer believe the bible is god's word.

however i do have a couple of lingering questions on this subject.

Jonathan Drake

@razor

i don't think I get what your asking for; are you asking for evidence that Heaven does not exist?

This is kind of the problem, there's no way to prove unequivocally God and heaven don't exist. I don't disbelieve because of this kind of proof. I don't believe there is a God because of evidence that disproves the bible, because of terrible things that have happened, because of the things you can look around and see religion doing in the name of their God. All of this is evidence that the bible and these groups are lies. When the things that are supposed to be from God are all lies and there are evidence against them - in my mind that discredits God pretty heavily.

I highly suggest reading Undeniable by bill Nye. He explains some things that very heavily influenced my reasoning on God.

57

The Bible Gods Word or Mans

by azor in

i remember studying this book years ago and how it impacted my belief system.

i no longer believe the bible is god's word.

however i do have a couple of lingering questions on this subject.

Jonathan Drake

Finkelsteina minute ago
pressman
Very true that the bible started all the beliefs about god. it makes sense that it would because it is the word of god.

Oh shit pressman there were ancient civilizations that predate the ancient Hebrews by thousands of years and they had other gods to worship than YHWH .
If that is true then the ancient Hebrews were not worshiping the right god , they were worshiping a pagan god distinct from the original true god.

Yea I didn't even mention this, I'd really like to know how you rationalize the bible itself saying worship of that God is older than itself with your post.... Lol (@pressman)

57

The Bible Gods Word or Mans

by azor in

i remember studying this book years ago and how it impacted my belief system.

i no longer believe the bible is god's word.

however i do have a couple of lingering questions on this subject.

Jonathan Drake

Uh-huh.

You're missing the point. Supposedly, the first man used by God was Moses. He began writing the bible after the mythical Exodus. Worship of this God, as well as many other deities, had already been around for 300+ years. The bible itself says that Melchizadek passed true worship to Abraham. Abraham lived long before Moses, long before the bible.

57

The Bible Gods Word or Mans

by azor in

i remember studying this book years ago and how it impacted my belief system.

i no longer believe the bible is god's word.

however i do have a couple of lingering questions on this subject.

Jonathan Drake

pressman20 minutes ago
Very true that the bible started all the beliefs about god. it makes sense that it would because it is the word of god.

Pressman, who wrote the first books of the bible?

keep it simple, one name is all that's necessary.

57

The Bible Gods Word or Mans

by azor in

i remember studying this book years ago and how it impacted my belief system.

i no longer believe the bible is god's word.

however i do have a couple of lingering questions on this subject.

Jonathan Drake

I said this elsewhere but,

1. The sun was a circle, apparently hung on nothing. The moon was a circle, apparently hung on nothing. The ancient people likely made the very small leap (if it's aleap) to the earth is also a circle hung on nothing.

2. The bible is not monotheistic. There are many gods in it. Even if you want to argue they only see one as true, the NT creates a binitary sort of God by establishing worship of God and Jesus both. This is a contradiction to everything in the Old Testament, which is why the Jews denied Jesus and Christianity was persecuted in Jerusalem.

There is no part of the bible that is accurate other than maybe the names of locations and historical events. But some of these are even misrepresentedm such as Daniel painting it as yet to happen when it was written after the fact.

The book of revelation is a bunch of symbolism that can fit any number of views. It's so vague you can apply it to tons of stuff, especially if your willing to be intellectually dishonest.

Its a ridiculous book. I.E., (and its FULL of this kind of crap)

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/203410001/lol-deut-13-1-5

25

New Watchtower Subliminal image just uploaded

by artcritic in

this picture was taken from the official jw site.

just uploaded this one.

its new and unseen .

Jonathan Drake

I don't see it. I've ner seen it.

But hey, if u need something equally misguided as them to get out and stay away that's fine; better than staying in.

556

The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

by cofty in

... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

they take pride in obedience.

Jonathan Drake

Those sort of JWs are beyond help.
That should not make us feel as if all attempts to make some of them question their beliefs are in vain.
This forum is a testimony to the fact that thousands of JWs have already done so.

Thats true, when I read that message I couldn't believe it though. I don't remember ever hearing that growing up. I think this is a gradual introduction. It might be that over time these such witnesses are going to be the majority. I hope not.

556

The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

by cofty in

... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

they take pride in obedience.

Jonathan Drake

The Bible really has nothing to do with it. I posit that the Bible has become little more than a prop for this religion.

This is a very good point, allow me to post an excerpt from a recent email with an elder:

The information that Jehovah provided to the bible writers is 100% perfect thought. Does it lose perfection when it is transferred from the inspired mind of the bible writer to the paper? We don't know for sure but maybe. Does it lose more perfection in the next step from the original paper to the scribe? Absolutely! If it didn't there wouldn't be a need for all the adjustments in thinking as time goes on. The point is we can't be 100% sure that we have everything that's written today exactly right. So where does that leave us? It leaves us in the exact same position that the first century Christians found themselves. Determining exactly who the agency is that Jehovah is working through to get the truth or proper direction from. It obviously wasn't the religious leaders of that day. Although they just knew in their own minds that they had it right. They were so confident in their thinking that they even argued with Jesus, and missed identifying the true agency.

This is the kind of people you're contending with. As you can see, this elder believes, and thus witnesses are supposed to believe, that the bible is SECOND in authority. Rather than trust it they trust the organizations interpretation of it - clearly what he said above. So the organization says blood transfusions are wrong, then they are wrong- regardless of what you can say about the bible, you aren't gods chosen organization.

12

LOL Deut 13:1-5

by Jonathan Drake in

omg i've never read this before or if i did i never caught it... .

13 [a]if a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them, 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the lord your god is testing you to find out if you love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 you shall follow the lordyour god and fear him; and you shall keep his commandments, listen to his voice, serve him, and cling to him.

Jonathan Drake

It's all about control.

This is exactly my point.

12

LOL Deut 13:1-5

by Jonathan Drake in

omg i've never read this before or if i did i never caught it... .

13 [a]if a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them, 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the lord your god is testing you to find out if you love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 you shall follow the lordyour god and fear him; and you shall keep his commandments, listen to his voice, serve him, and cling to him.

Jonathan Drake

Omg I've never read this before or if I did I never caught it...

13 “[a]If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you to find out if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall follow the Lordyour God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has [b]counseled [c]rebellion against the Lord your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of [d]slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you.

So let's get this straight.. Really think about this for those of you who still believe. God directed this prophet to test the people and lead them astray, it does say this- it says this prophets words and accurate prophecies are a test from God. But the direction is to stone him to death for, apparently, DOING WHAT HE WAS TOLD BY GOD.

Think about it. Why do you think such a prophet would have been killed? Could it be that there is no God and this was a contingency plan for times when a person makes up a story that comes true who isn't part of the Yahweh sect?